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"Disgusted by how we were treated"

About: Dumfries & Galloway Royal Infirmary / Accident & Emergency

(as a relative),

I am a EU resident and my dad is visiting me from abroad. He is not a EU or British citizen so before coming to Scotland he made sure to get traveler's insurance with a good coverage. He hadn't been feeling well so we called the insurance about taking him to the doctor's and they arrange for us to speak to a NHS nurse on the phone first, to triage his symptoms. After speaking to her, she advised us to take him to the A&E, and so we did.

He was seen by a staff member who saw the insurance paperwork, including his coverage. They had him do a series of exams including blood and x-ray and he was waiting for the results in a room with my husband. This is when I came to the hospital from work and waited with them. As soon as they came back I smiled to introduce myself but this staff member walked past me and and asked my dad: and this is who? Pointing a me. I thought that was a bit rude but ok, I thought they were probably busy so never mind. The manner with which my dad was spoken to was demeaning, as if he was stupid. My husband and I are fluent English speakers, but my dad isn't, so this staff member was talking to him but I could tell he wasn't really understanding anything being said and just nodding and smiling. 

They went on saying to my dad that his exams were normal and that he was fine, that he didn't have anything. They then said that he shouldn't have come to the Hospital, that he should have seen a GP. This is when I started talking and tried to explain that he is not a resident, he is a tourist and this is why he has insurance, and the reason we brought him in was because the NHS nurse told us to. The staff member argued with me that this is not what we should have done, because he is staying with us for a few weeks so next time not to bring him to the hospital because he looks ok, that they could see it in his face that he was fine and also, that he was walking.

I then got worried and stressed because I felt they were downplaying how unwell he was and I explained that actually, knowing him, he did not look well at all, he did not look like himself, that he looks very tired and drained, that he can't walk half a block and he is a business man, normally very active. He is here on holidays visiting his daughter and grandchildren whom he hasn't seen in four years and he is not able to enjoy going out because he literally can't. We take him out for a meal and he needs to rest the rest of the day. That is not his normal self and I was concerned.

This staff member went on telling me that they see patients everyday and that just by looking at them they can tell who are well and that they themselves knew how things work. I honestly didn't want to get into an argument and leave my poor unwell dad waiting and cause him more stress, so I didn't say anything about this anymore.

This member of staff said they didn't think he needed any medication but gave him antibiotics anyway because he mentioned green mucous. So I asked how long he should take the medication for (again, I am not a doctor, I wanted to make sure I had the correct information because he was not understanding a word and would rely on me later). I was told to finish the box and if he was not well again, not to bring him to the A&E but to my local GP.

They were just not getting this but I let it go and just asked how long should I see that he is feeling better, just to have an idea, and was told that there was no way of telling. So I felt left in the dark and that staff just wanted to get rid of us as soon as possible. Something that came to my mind was if this person thought my dad was so well, why did they have him submitted to so many exams then? One does wonder.

We left and my dad not understanding anything and being the polite person he is, thanked this staff member for their service. They gave a funny smile.  I felt as if they didn't care.

My husband and I were just glad this was over and that he had his antibiotics to take and see if he felt better.

We then proceeded to go the reception as the NHS office had asked for a copy of the discharge papers and the invoice, to pay for the bill. Then a whole new journey begins.  The member of staff we met there said they had never done this before and that they could provide us with the discharge papers but not the invoice. We then double checked with the insurance and they reiterated that the hospital had to send them an invoice. The member of staff then kept saying this is not the case and wanted to give us an email address to contact someone. I said that I appreciated they had not dealt with this before and unfortunately was not provided the training, but that I needed to speak to someone else then because I didn't want to leave and not get this sorted. I was worried about having to come back and explain all of this to someone new and they would not have a clue of what was going on and all I wanted to was to make sure the hospital received for the services provided.

The member of staff then argued with me that this not the procedure and I kept trying to explain that I understand it is not, it is a private patient, but that the NHS office alongside the insurance company were messaging us as we spoke, advising this is what we needed to do. They would just not take my word for it.

I then asked them to read the messages, hoping they would then understand I wasn't making this up, but they refused. So I asked them to speak to someone else because I couldn't leave without getting this sorted. There was another member of staff sitting next to them who seemed to feel sorry for us (all the while my unwell dad is just being put to more stress and pain, as he just wants to go home).

This person went inside and got me the previous member of staff. I don't know if there just wasn't enough staff, but here I was going to have to deal with the same person again, and I knew they would not be keen to help.

For the sake of my dad, I thought I will just try and sort this as quick as possible and explained what the NHS and insurance were requesting us and that I understand this is not ordinary procedure, but that I just really wanted to get the bill paid for. I spoke with my normal tone of voice, just trying to explain the importance of getting this done and also worried about my dad at the same time. Suddenly this person puts their finger in front of their mouth and goes: "SHUSH!".

I was shocked, gobsmacked, to say the least. I was not expecting such an unprofessional attitude from a nurse, so that was really upsetting. I asked if they had just shushed me? And then I could see it in their face that they realized they had crossed a line and they nervously said I had raised my voice at them. I then explained that I did not, and that they had no right to treat me like this when all I was trying to do is get what the NHS itself and insurance company are asking from the hospital. My husband then came with someone from the insurance company on the phone to speak to them and we asked if this staff member would please take the call because we were trying to explain but nobody would believe us or read written messages. 

They took the phone, not very happy about it, and then when the person started explaining the situation, their demeanour changed. All of a sudden they were helpful  and all the same things that we were asking from them before suddenly became possible to do. I actually heard the person on the phone saying they were causing us unnecessary stress, which is true.

My dad was very upset with this whole incident, feeling he was a burden, when he has every right to seek treatment. 

When the call was over we did say that it was unacceptable for them to treat people like this. That just because we have a different accent it does not mean they get to treat us they way they did. It felt to us that as soon as someone with a local accent got on the phone, things changed, and to me that feels like pure racism.

A different nurse came and told us we had to leave. I asked why we had to leave and was told that we were causing stress to the people in the reception. We were having this conversation by the water fountain, which is close to the exit, not in front of the reception desk. Again, they were causing us distress and they are the ones asking us to leave. I do not understand health and care professionals treating their patients like this. I said that my dad was a patient too and they were causing him distress and we were not going to be kicked out of the hospital. The staff member we had been dealing with this whole time kept arguing with me and I decided that I was going to take the high road and take my dad home and put on a complaint later. It was clearly not possible to talk to them and they were not interested. Every single interaction we had at the hospital made us feel they just wanted to get rid of us.  

I am disgusted by how we were treated. We felt discriminated because we have a different accent from them and are not local, we felt ridicule in public and just humiliated, really. 

I can guarantee that after 4 years without seeing his daughter, son in law and grandchildren, the A&E is the last place my dad or us wanted to spend our evening at. We would not have gone unless we felt it was serious. Truly disappointed and now my dad is going to take this horrible impression of Scotland home with him, a place that has become our home and that I spoke so highly of. This does not represent the whole of Scotland, of course, but it is something that needs to be taken further as it is people's lives at risk when medical staff are treating them like this.

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Responses

Response from Emma Murphy, Patient Feedback Manager, NHS Dumfries and Galloway 4 years ago
Emma Murphy
Patient Feedback Manager,
NHS Dumfries and Galloway
Submitted on 29/11/2019 at 11:48
Published on Care Opinion at 11:48


Dear Dadsdaughter,

Thank you for taking the time to share your story on Care Opinion. I am sorry that you and your family found the experience in A&E so distressing.

As you have also contacted us directly regarding this matter, there is an investigation in progress and a full response will be issued to you soon. Whilst I cannot share details of that response here due to patient confidentiality, I can address some of your points more generally.

Emergency treatment given in Accident and Emergency departments is free in Scotland regardless of residential status or nationality. As the service is not chargeable, we are unable to provide an invoice for any care or treatment received in A&E. I appreciate that it must have been difficult if you were receiving conflicting information regarding this and I am sorry if our communication could have been clearer.

With regards to signposting to the GP for any further care needs after your father’s visit to A&E, this is fairly standard practice. There are a number of options available to patients when they are experiencing health issues, and the GP or local pharmacy are often the best point of contact in the first instance. It is of course important that patients feel able to attend A&E if they are injured or seriously unwell.

You have shared in detail a number of instances where you feel that staff communication was inappropriate. I am sorry that you found the staff dismissive or unhelpful in any way. I can assure you that this was not their intention and we will reply to that further in our direct response to you.

Should you have any further concerns or queries, please contact the Patient Experience Team on 01387 241379 or by email at dumf-uhb.dgpatientexperience@nhs.net.

I hope that your dad is now feeling a little better and has been able to enjoy the rest of his time visiting the family.

Kind regards

Emma Murphy

Patient Feedback Manager

  • {{helpful}} {{helpful == 1 ? "person thinks" : "people think"}} this response is helpful

Update posted by Dadsdaughter (a relative)

Dear Emma,

I appreciate you taking the time to reply and the information you have given me and I absolutely understand.

What happens is that Emergency treatment is free in Scotland, but if my dad needed to be hospitalized (we wouldn't know until he was seen first), then it is not free and he would have had to use his insurance. So insurance standard procedure is to contact the Hospital first and check if they accept his insurance, and this is what was done. Dumfries Hospital confirmed his insurance was accepted and that we were ok to come to the A&E. It was out of hours when his symptoms got worse to the point to raise concerns, so while I appreciate that standard procedure is to see a GP or to go to the Chemist, my dad is 60 years old, was having difficulties breathing, sleeping and even walking upstairs. We checked his symptoms with an NHS nurse over the phone first, we didn't just turn up at the A&E. The nurse was the one who advised us to take him to the A&E. Then insurance checked with the hospital, which said it was ok for us to come, so off we went. You can understand if a nurse tells you on the phone he should be taken to the A&E, that we will take him to the A&E and not take a chance.

This is why when we got there, to be told that we shouldn't have come and that he looked fine, that he was walking, and to be told to stop talking, like we were a nuisance, was not the best feeling in the world.

Also, he is a tourist, and tourists are not allowed to register with GPs. This is why he has travel insurance. He is not going to look for medical advice for ordinary standard health issues while he is a tourist, visiting a different country, he will only be seen for emergencies, as everybody else when on holidays.

We definitely experienced discrimination from the nurse that treated us like this and also the receptionist.

I have actually had to go back to Dumfries Hospital last weekend, and the doctor who saw us had no problem reading the insurance messages on my phone or providing he insurance paperwork. It literally took him 2 min. Same procedure, no hostility. He was brilliant, and so was the nurse that saw us in the first instance. Very warm and friendly.

At one point, the nurse who had told us to leave the reception during our first visit with my dad came in the room, and I did not realize it was her until I smiled to say hi and she ignored me, did not reply to me or acknowledge my greeting. Then I realized who she was.

I can say that we have had more positive experiences than negative from Dumfries Hospital A&E or out of hours staff and I did consider not saying anything and not raising a complaint, but that would mean I am compliant with discrimination and I am not. I had to do something to raise awareness, hoping this will help others in the future be treated differently. Even if it means that when I need to go to the out of hours for whatever reason, that some staff will not give me a smile because they are not happy that I actually reported their behaviour. There is a name for this and it's called bullying. We like to think it only happens among children or teenagers, but it starts with the examples given by adults. I stand by my right and of my family to be treated with dignity, regardless of race or accent. This world should be less about making us different and more about the fact we are all from the same group: the group of human beings.

Response from Emma Murphy, Patient Feedback Manager, NHS Dumfries and Galloway 4 years ago
Emma Murphy
Patient Feedback Manager,
NHS Dumfries and Galloway
Submitted on 04/12/2019 at 14:30
Published on Care Opinion at 14:30


Dear Dadsdaughter,

Thank you for taking the time to respond further. We are in the process of preparing a direct response to your complaint following our investigation. The information you have provided in your reply above will be considered as part of that process. Please accept my apologies once again for your experience.

Kind regards

  • {{helpful}} {{helpful == 1 ? "person thinks" : "people think"}} this response is helpful
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